Looking at the individual bets on a per-roll basis, the house edge on the 5 is 1. The same shooter rolls a 6 on the come-out roll for the next new game; therefore, the point for this game is 6. First, the shooter throws the come out roll, which ended up being 8. When you get to five rolls after you start counting, the shooter is deemed worthy, and you start betting. The game is over. In other words, even if he tried to lose, he still only gives up 0.

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The 10 becomes your point for your Flat Come bet. So, now in this example, you have the 5 as your point for your Pass Line bet, and you have the 10 as your point for your Come bet. If the shooter rolls another 10, you win your Come bet. However, if the shooter rolls a 7, you lose both your Pass Line bet and your Come bet. The Flat Come bet is a self-service bet, which means you make this bet yourself by placing your chips in the Come box directly in front of you. After your Come point is established, the dealer moves your chips from the Come box to the square point number box for your Come point number.

Unlike the Pass Line Odds bet where you position the chips yourself behind the line, the dealer must position the Come Odds bet for you. The slight offset indicates that the top portion of the chip stack is the Odds bet and the bottom portion is the Flat bet.

As noted, when you put your chips in the Come box for a Flat Come bet, the very next roll is treated as the come-out roll for that specific Come bet. The rules for winning, losing, or establishing a point on the come-out roll for a Pass Line bet are the same for the Come bet. The very next roll is considered the come-out roll for your Come bet.

Suppose the shooter rolls an When the Pass Line point is established, the dealer marks the Pass Line point with the puck in the corresponding square point box. The dealer picks up the chip for your Flat Come bet from the Come box and positions it inside the square point number box.

After your Come point is established, you can take true odds on that Come point number, just as you can with the Flat Pass Line bet. You can make as many Come bets as you want. In fact, if the shooter is rolling lots of numbers other than the dreaded 7 , you could have as many as seven Come bets working at the same time i.

See the figure below for an illustration of where Come bets are positioned on the layout. I intentionally omitted the player positions from this figure as a test to see if you remember them from our other articles. Note that the positions of Come bets inside the square point boxes correspond to the player positions. If you forget the player positions, remember that I said earlier in this article to put the Flat Come bet chip in the Come box directly in front of you.

Also in this example, you have a new Flat Come bet in the Come box. If you have Come with Odds bets working on the come-out roll of a new game i. However, the Flat portions are considered on i.

In this case, the dealer returns the Odds portions of your Come bets to you, and he keeps the Flat portions. If the shooter rolls a point number on the come-out for which you have an already established Flat Come with Odds bet, only your Flat portion wins because the Odds portion is considered automatically off for the come-out roll of a new game. Wow, I know that sounded really confusing. You might want to read that paragraph again. In craps, does the house edge change if you make a don't pass bet then remove it if the point is 6 or 8?

What if you remove it if the point is 6,8,5,or 9? You should never remove a don't pass bet after a point is made! Once a point is made of 6 or 8 the don't pass has equity of 9. You eliminate the sevens on the come out roll.

Your site is the greatest. Thanks for the compliment on my site. The best thing I can say about this system is that it composed of low house edge bets. By making the pass bet you are increasing the overall house edge. Never hedge your bets. I am a novice, just starting to play.

The way I understand the system: Wait until the shooter establishes a point. Until you have a maximum of four numbers After the shooter has rolled five times without rolling a 7, take odds on all your numbers on the front side. Limit your exposure until you find a "qualified" five rolls without a 7 shooter. Only betting the odds so there is no "house edge"! It is also not going to help to wait until a shooter hits five points. The probability of making a point is the same for me and you as it is for somebody who just threw points in a row.

In other words, the past does not matter. The Kelly strategy for betting requires a positive edge to be effective. Would the Kelly strategy be helpful to me? I would just flat bet. Nice strategy to milk the comp system. The American Mensa Guide to Casino Gambling has the following "anything but seven" combination of craps bets that shows a net win on any number except 7. How is that possible if every individual bet made has a higher house edge?

To confirm their math I made the following table, based on a field bet paying 3 to 1 on a So the house edge is indeed. However, in this case the player is only keeping the place bets up for one roll. This significantly reduces the house edge on the place bets from 4.

For you purists who think I am inconsistent in measuring the house edge on place bets as per bet resolved or ignoring ties then I invite you to visit my craps appendix 2 where all craps bets are measured per roll including ties.

I had to Google this to find out what this is. This appears to me to be an amusing urban legend about some young scientists who developed a winning craps system. The story is told at Quatloos. I have a question about a series of bets in craps. The strategy is called the "Iron Cross. I read up on this, and found that this particular bet will pay on every roll that is not a 7.

I was told that this gives you the lowest house edge. What are all the various odds and what-nots to go along with it? This begs the question, why is this lower than the individual house edge of each bet made? The reason it seems that way is the result of comparing apples to oranges. The house edge of place bets is usually expressed as the expected loss per bet resolved. Looking at the individual bets on a per-roll basis, the house edge on the 5 is 1. As the book states, it is a way of betting nothing on some rolls, reducing your expected loss on random shooters, while still getting the full comp value of table time.

The way the 5-Count works is you start counting rolls as soon as a new shooter throws any point number. When you get to five rolls after you start counting, the shooter is deemed worthy, and you start betting.

You will lose if a 2, 3 or 12 is rolled and win if a 7 or 11 is rolled. Any come bet is almost like an individual pass line bet on every roll. For example, if you roll anything other than 2, 3, 12 or 7, 11 or the original point, you will land on some other number which could be thought of as a "secondary" point.

Your chips will then be moved up to that other number you rolled and you can actually keep making come bets which can establish to other "secondary" point numbers. The shooter must roll these same point numbers in order to win.

Also, if the shooter rolls the original point number where the puck is displayed as on , the round ends, but your come bets still remain and players can make pass line bets again as well. The player will lose all of their come bets once the shooter rolls a seven. This bet pays even odds or 1: In fact, this is exactly the same odds as the pass line bet, which is expected.

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